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Topic: Vampires and their souls

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Vampires and their souls
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Hi.

I would like to start a discussion about vampires and their souls in Being Human. I know this series we had Hal relating to Crumb a nugget about vampires having no reflection because it was the Devil's way of reminding them that he had taken their soul BUT questions arise from this:

1) Is this BH canon or is it just vampire superstition? Hal (I think) does not state it as fact but says something like 'it is said that ...'. Can we infer from this that this is not actual canon in BH-verse or is this Toby's attempt at a) answering the questions 'why don't vampires have a reflection/show on film?' and b) answering the question 'do BH vampires have a soul?' (e.g. they don't in Buffy)

2) if vampires have no soul, how does this explain the very obvious two-people-in-one role created for Hal during S5? We see him refer to himself as two people (I'm not going to offer quotes here, I'm sure you can all recall the lines I'm speaking of). The BadHal is like his vampire form (the soulless version?) whereas ... well, where does Good Hal come from? Good Hal, despite his obvious struggles to remain Good (and keep the BadHal at bay) is essentially human - as Tom said in The Last broadcast - 'odd' but human. It seemed to me that Hal is two people, his human soul and the vampire/demon. Even if you decide that he has no soul, who or what is GoodHal? If he repels the demon into a deep recess within himself, what is it that is left?

3) We did see a glimpse of this two-people-in-one thing before with Mitchell, after the BT20. Not only did he perve on Annie and frighten her, but he even referred to A and G like they were unconnected to him (which they were, if you follow the notion that he was in demon-mode, and the Mitchell we knew was being suppressed by the demon). Annie even says to G 'There's someone in the kitchen' - she doesn't recognise him; she knows he is someone else.

4) If the devil does 'have' the vampires' human souls, does this mean he has them locked away in Hell? Or does this mean that the vampire still has his human soul but as part of the deal, it is forfeited to the devil when the vamp is eventually staked etc.?

5) Lastly, I do recall what Toby said about Lauren's death. He wanted it to be beautiful, because he said she was goign to 'a a better place' - and indeed, she evaporates with a beatific smile on her face. I forget her last words but they are something like 'it's coming! Oh my-!' Almost ecstatic. I don't believe this would happen to her if she was headed to Hell.

Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts - there is so much to discuss here!

x Topo



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I think when Hal said along the lines of how the devil took there reflection so on so on. Was just a myth he and a group of other vampires made up back in the day to just have something to say about not having a reflection. You mention Buffy. Are you talking about Buffy the vampire slayer? yeah the vampires have no soul. But they are also more. . . Demon like!

Any way. . . I'm not too sure what else to say. . . But i hope other join this topic and help you start a discussion :p

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Hi Kayla, 

Yeah, I hope some others join in. Yes, the vampires in Buffy were soulless, although it seemed their souls were kept in Hell, as they could be returned to e.g. Angel, Spike, with powerful magic. Those vampires  had some sort of residuall characteristics of the human but Buffy was always very clear that the human was dead, the body was occupied by a demon, you were killing a demon when you killed a vampire, it was not 'killing' as such; in BH we are led to believe from quite early on that even taking a vampire's life is killing and that it  damages you in the same way that killing human beings would. (Think Annie's guilt over killing Cooper, the big deal it was when George bit Herrick's head off, Mitchell's reluctance to off Lauren). I think BH has established that vampires are NOT soulless demons - if they were, then what would be the point in trying to be human? If you've no humanity, surely that is pointless? I know M decided the endless struggle was too much for him and he was fighting a losing battle, and this is why he asked G to stake him, but if he was truly soulless, how would G have grown to love him, how would G  struggle with his conscience before staking him?

 

Please, people, I'd love to hear what you think!



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to quote Buffy 'when a vampire is made you die and a demon sets up shop in your body' don't know why I remember that line, i think it was when Chanterelle/Jane was with the group of vampire wannabes led by that boy from roswell (cant remember his name)
Anyway, clearly soul seperated from body in Buffyverse but in BH the demon seems to share the body.
Mind you in Buffy, Angel also comments that vamps are an extension of the human character which causes uncomfortableness when Willow is clearly 'a little bit gay'

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